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- Poll . 

The menu bar

Posted by Yaba on Oct 7 2009
Save the menu bar!39%39%39% 39%
Move to the top (like Mac OS)25%25%25% 25%
Kill it! It's an old relic16%16%16% 16%
Ribbons are not too bad9%9%9% 9%
Context menu is good enough4%4%4% 4%
Don't care7%7%7% 7%
Votes: 2328
goto page: prev   1  2 


 vote a second time.

 by dummy on: Oct 13 2009
Score 50%

Here you can vote for this idea.

personal website: (nederlands)

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 move to the top??

 by niky45 on: Nov 11 2009
Score 50%

you actually can move it to the top (right click on it> panel settings> click on "screen edge"> pull up to the top of the screen).
So, i don't think it would be a good idea.... since, hey, what is the real difference??

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 Re: move to the top??

 by Glaedr on: Nov 12 2009
Score 50%

Of course, the windows would be smaller and it would save space...

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 Re: move to the top??

 by msledziona on: Nov 12 2009
Score 50%

It's not about the Plasma menu bar, but the one that is placed under window decoration in (almost) all applications. Here's the mockup of the new-style menu bar: http://forum.kde.org/brainstorm.php?sid=7d37897e3c3d6574c53abcb8c7bfaa66#idea61999

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 Re: Re: move to the top??

 by niky45 on: Nov 13 2009
Score 50%

this... this is much worse than i thought....!!

i hate latest MS office versions, and windows 7, only for not having that menu bar.

perhaps the menu bar is not the best solution, but... please offer a real alternative.

PS: and what about a switch, so the user can select if they want to have the classic menu bar or something different??

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 Re: Re: Re: move to the top??

 by msledziona on: Nov 13 2009
Score 50%

I think you should not be afraid of the possibility of moving the menu bar. It's not the same, as removing it. Menu bar will still be in KDE's apps, but it will be moved a little higher. I think it would save some space, especially for those, who have small screens. And the usability of that menu will still be the same, as earlier.
Once again: nobody is trying to remove the menu bar, like Microsoft did. This idea is just about placing the menu bar in the title bar of KWin.

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: move to the top??

 by Fri13 on: Nov 15 2009
Score 50%

The idea to move menubar from application itself to window decoration is flawed.

1) Usability is awful.
You need to avoid touching the menu when dragging window. It adds clutter to place what should be clean (that we have space somewhere, does not mean we need to move stuff there. Space is needed to have better usability). And to have better usability, we need to have samekind functionality on all apps. Not just one kind menu on few apps, otherkind on other apps and third on few other apps. That would be so terrible.

2) Brokes functionality.
This does not allow window decorations other than Oxygen styled. We can not have BII kind window decorations what has only the window name.
We can not have window decorations what are moved from top to left/right/bottom side (example Bespin), it brakes the functionality and usability.

3) Does not follow themes.
Moving menu to window decoration, would make impossible to make nicer window decoration themes. This would affect how easy it is to read if you have transparent decoration.

4) Different menus and sizes.
There are multiple applications what have window size just what is the menu size. If we move menu to the window decoration, there is no space where to drag the window itself. And no, the Alt+LMB is not answer for everyone.

5) It isn't a fix for the "problem".
The Apple did in the start smart move by moving menubar to top to own panel because they had Dock. We can do same with XBar on bespin and one other plasmoid on KDE playground. It is much better idea than this, even it takes the menu bar space from desktop. But it makes the Application UI look smoother and does not have manu other problems what this idea would have.

And Microsoft did not invent Ribbon. It is a ripoff from older 90's software where it was used. Ribbon has bad usability problems (different sized icons, text+icons, icons-only, 1-3 rows, random hiding when scaling window, some functions has livepreview, some not. It still includes typical drop-down menus... the list could be continued very long). And it is not a UI what does not have the menubar, it is just different way to build the menubar by connection the toolbar to it's view.
The Ribbon is not a magical UI what fits to every damn application. Think about Amarok, digiKam, Kopete, Konqueror, Dolphin, KTorrent, Konsole and KMail with it... Just terrible.

6) We do already have a answer to menu problem. It is the Ctrl+M. All what we need to do, is to continue designing application toolbars as good by default as possible. just like what Apple does. You do not add any functions to toolbar what you do not need every day. Apple does this fine and push everything else to menu what is not near the application, but still easily accessible. Then just offer the global Ctrl(+Alt)+M shortcut to all apps by moving that functionality to kdelibs. And mayby make the default HIG so that you add one button to toolbar to right side, "Show menubar".
Microsoft did this for normal windows this like for explorer and it works great. Just the Alt shortcut is such you press it by mistake. And they moved most needed features to toolbar. Problem solved.

We have two best ideas to get simpler and easy to use and easy to learn UI. The Apple way moving menubar to top to own panel, or the KDE/Windows way with Ctrl(+Alt)+M. Somepeople likes the Google Chrome idea what is the reKonq app using as well. But it does not fit to all apps either. So we are again on situation where we would endup to have different UI's for different apps, making them to be harder to learn and use.

Unless we can not get better solution than Ctrl(+Alt)+M and Apples separated menu, we need to stick on the current one. But the current one is already the Ctrl(+Alt)+M but just partically implented, so why not just implent it to kdelibs and get the tighter HIG about toolbar?

What is Linux and GNU/Linux?

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